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 3SGTE Swap (Detailed)

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PostSubject: 3SGTE Swap (Detailed)   Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:34 pm

From http://www.toyotacelicaonline.com/3sgteswap.htm

Swapping 3S-GTE into Front-Wheel-Drive Celica


Disclaimer

The following information has been compiled by Peter Silvoy. He has actually done the modification described below and is a proud owner of a FWD Celica equipped with a 3S-GTE engine. The engine itself was delivered by JEMCO, which also was involved in the actual engine swap. Please note that Peter takes no responsibility for any damage caused to you or your property as a result of carrying out this modification. Done incorrectly, severe and expensive damages can occur. Please use these directions as general guidelines and make sure either you or your mechanic has the technical knowledge needed.


Introduction


This is a basic overview of my experience with doing this swap. To my knowledge, there are VERY few of these performed, most of them done by TOYSPORT who neglected to offer any help, so I take ALL the credit in making it work, as far as fabrication and installation. I credit ROB SMITH at RPS for helping me with the engine management system (which made it all work!), and all his time he lent to me in the process. Rob really knows what he is talking about, so if you want to buy parts and need info, call him to find out if he carries them. And last but not least JONNIE MORRIS at JEMCO for supplying the motor and miscellaneous parts needed to complete my ultimate street ride. I purchased the motor from JEMCO last January, but didn't start work until September. Jonnie helped me find random parts and answered some questions when I had them.

Description

In order to gain some serious power for my 1990 Celica GT featuring the 2.2l 5S-FE engine, I decided to swap in the 3S-GTE engine from a Celica All-Trac. Both engines are almost identical when referring to the block. They have the same dimensions and bolt patterns. They are both derived from the same engine family. The 3S-GTE is a 2.0L turbo, and the 5S-FE a 2.2L NA engine. The 3S-GTE will bolt to the 5S-FE transmission with no problem. The only thing different is the transmission shaft. To make this work you must use the clutch DISC from the 5S-FE transmission, and the PRESSURE PLATE (and flywheel) from the 3S-GTE.

All engine and transmission mounts are identical and the accessories (A/C pump, power steering, and alternator) will work with no mods. I do recommend using the ones that exist on the 3S-GTE if they came attached. This keeps you from changing belts and causing problems. But, it is possible to use the parts from your 5S-FE by disconnecting them from the motor prior to removal, and leaving the hoses attached. The advantage of this is that you do not need to replace fluids or flush out systems due to air entering them.



The installer can make this decision. The rear heater hoses from the 5sfe will work with the 3sgte. The upper radiator hose will also work with some modification (will discuss further). You must use the lower radiator hose from the 3sgte, as it is longer at the top. For the turbo to cool, it uses both water and oil. The oil lines are already attached, but the water line (in the All-Trac) connects to the radiator. The radiator in the 5sfe has no connection for the turbo water line. This is where you must fabricate a fitting. A piece of pipe that fits in the upper radiator hose must be cut to a length of about 3-4 inches. Obtain a nipple fitting that matches the turbo outlet and drill and tap it into the pipe (or drill and weld). Then cut the upper radiator hose a few inches from the radiator, and remove a couple inches. Insert the pipe with fitting into the hose to connect it and clamp ends. Use a hose (that can withstand the heat) to connect the turbo water line to the new fitting in the radiator hose.Depending on whether the engine is a ST165 or ST185 model determines the intercooler specs. The older models (88-89) have water-air intercoolers, while the newer ones use air-air units. Also, other international models may have liquid intercoolers on newer models (the Carlos Sainz model). If using the newer air-air model, a hood from a turbo Celica (or custom) must be obtained and installed to properly cool the intercooler. But for the water units, and intercooler water pump and radiator must be installed. If the motor did not come with the pump, I would recommend finding one from a Celica, or buy a high volume electric water pump. The fittings are 5/8" for the hose from the intercooler to the pump. A universal fluid cooler can be used to cool the water. Install the cooler in front of the radiator, or if possible, in front of the a/c radiator. Run the hose out of the pump, then into the radiator, then to the Intercooler. Lastly connect a hose from the intercooler back to the pump input.BlankLine

A TIP: Replace any hoses and gaskets that appear to be old and worn out. It is VERY difficult to work on them while the engine is in the car; it is very cramped after everything is installed. If a factory part is not available, consult a qualified mechanic to find out what can be substituted for that part. USE FACTORY PARTS WHENEVER POSSIBLE. The Toyota Engine Management (ECU) is very well designed, and if you do not plan on major mods, keep it to control the motor. A few things can be done to the ECU to let boost be increased past factory fuel-cut-off levels. You will need everything that connects to the computer, or else it won't work properly.

OTHER OPTIONS (what I did):

Another way to go about engine control Is an aftermarket ECU (i.e. ACCEL DFI, Electromotive Tec-II, Haltec, etc.). After too many questions about getting my factory computer to work, I called Rob Smith at RPS performance products. Rob has been featured in almost every import performance magazine (S.C.C., Turbo, Super Street, etc.) and is well known for his ability to tune imports. He programmed my DFI with his base program that he uses for MR-2's and Celica's (for the 3S-GTE). With a laptop, I can fine-tune the fuel maps, and properly set my ignition timing. A MSD 6AL (and aftermartket coil) is required in use with the DFI unit. It is very easy to install per instructions. With this setup, I can get maximum performance from the engine in current form, and push it to the limits in the future. The DFI is very simple to install, except for the distributor modification. Rob can perform this task if necessary, or have it done by a machinist. The Toyota distributor has 24 teeth. You must remove all but 4 that oppose each other (like an +). The magnetic pickup must be set up correctly in this process. I suggest contacting Rob and having him do it for a small fee, to make sure it's done right (or contact me for info).I have also a few Blitz products. Namely a SSBC, a Dual Turbo Timer, and Super Sound BOV. I keep my boost at 9 psi on the street (low) and 13 psi for track (high), for now...

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PostSubject: Re: 3SGTE Swap (Detailed)   Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:11 am

another article here

from http://gtfour.supras.org.nz/3S-GTE%20Upgrade.htm

Quote :
3S-GTE Fitment to NA Celica





Any 3S-GTE can be fitted to any front wheel drive Celica shell that was originally fitted with a 3S or 5S series engine. Mounting is identical in each case, however the plumbing and wiring will vary in each case.

This is not intended as a blow by blow installation procedure. Hopefully this will give you enough guidance and confidence to go do your own research to find out what goes where. To complete this type of project you need to have the ability to figure things out for yourself and not rely on others to show you how to do it. To be blunt, if you read this and then come back to me with the query "how do I do this conversion", then you don't have the capability to perform this.

So you want to the later engine to your Celica then do you? Well ST205 GT-Four motors are not overly easy to find, let alone at a decent price. Late SW20 Turbo motors are more common but much more is involved in terms of fitment. ST165 and ST185 engines are now commonplace and reasonably priced.

A note with buying a used engine, while earlier 3S-GTE engines may be cheaper than later engines, consider that the later engines come with larger injectors, larger throttle bodies and many other advantages that can easily offset the price differential, especially if you intend to modify the engine.

A 3S-GTE motor will almost literally bolt straight into a front wheel drive car, after all all "S" series blocks share common mounting locations. The mounts on the gearbox are in the same locations and your older cambelt end mount bolts straight up to the block.

Toyota use (I believe) "S" series front wheel drive manual gearboxes in the Celicas. All forced induction 3S-GTE engines use the stronger "E" series gearboxes. How much stronger? I can't really say, how long is a piece of string? Is the "S" series strong enough?? Who knows, depends how you drive/abuse it. Are there alternatives? Yes!

There are people using the E153 transmission from the MR2 Turbo. The shift levers must be removed and replaced with those from a GT-Four gearbox (possibility others may fit?). An alternative driveshaft must be sourced. I believe there is also a Camry V6 manual gearbox used in some markets that may be used. And no a 4A-GZE "E" series gearbox will not work, the bellhousing is different.

If you use an air-air intercooler ST185 motor you will need to either modify the bonnet or got front mount air-air. The ST165 water-air IC will fit under any Celica hood, I can't comment on the larger ST185RC or ST205 intercoolers. I've seen photos of cars with plain NA hoods fitted with these engines but I cannot confirm what other changes were made. Note however that the ST185RC and ST205 hoods are actually budged to clear the intercooler.

Radiator and heater hoses are in the same locations so no worries there. Your existing AC pump will bolt straight up to any engine. You will need to retain the AC system from your original bodyshell, in that all original sensors and plumbing should be used. Power steering pump and even alternator are interchangeable between all GT-Four motors, however ST185 and ST205 alternators will only fit a ST165 without the cooling shield. The PS and alternator brackets are common fitment across all models. '86-'91 70A GT-Four alternators use different size plugs from '91-'99 80A alternators however the plugs are easily swapped as required.

Wiring will be the main issue, the newer engine wiring will have to be interfaced to the older car harness. Both wiring diagrams will clearly be needed. This is where the main complexity of the swap is and good troubleshooting skills are required. Note that a Japanese spec Celica motor has the harness enter the firewall at the distributor end of the rear of the engine, whereas US spec cars have the harness at the cambelt end of the rear of the motor. All MR2 engines have the harness at the distributor end of the head however the interface wiring is completely different. Basically if changing an engine from one body type to another expect a significant amount of rewiring.

Good luck!

UPDATE:

Info gleaned off the net:

1. The alternator bracket/engine hook is different - 2nd gen's wont fit. The alternator itself is the same though.

2. The accessories tensioner (below the alt) is different - 2nd gen won't fit. Then you'll need to cut off the rear support arm to clear the water outlet on the 2nd gen. block.

3. The water outlet / elbow is different - 2nd gens wont fit. There are four outlets on the 2rd gen:

A. water temp sensor
B. water temp sender (for the gauge)
C. cold start injector signal
D. A/C water temp.

There are 2 sensors on the 3rd gen - water temp sensor and water temp sender. You'll need to tap a hole for the A/C temp if you plan on keeping the A/C.

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1990 Toyota Celica GTR 4WS ST183 - Steer From The Rear, Literally!
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